SwiftVets.com

mikest · PO2 Joined: 11 May 2004 Posts: 377

Fair enough.

Theresa Alwood · Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2004 12:22 am Post subject:

Ok...time for the ladies to weigh in.

I am pro-choice; I am pro-death penalty; I am a republican! I know! I know! Sounds strange (these are my opinions and I am entitled to them, so no name calling please).

One of the main reason I am pro-choice is that the majority of the men in this world leave it us to use "protection" and then if by chance a "accident" happens men become jackrabbits and run in the other direction. I have seen too many women have to be a single parent. Most men whine, complain and moan about the "blood-sucking" ex wife and all the money she gets and how he has another family to support and raise. I have seen too many children wonder why Daddy does not come around anymore once Mommy and Daddy got divorced. I have seen a divorced women's economy tumbled to the likes of poverty while the father complains about how much money this divorce is costing him. While it may not sound like a viable reason for abortion, it still should be the choice of those involved. I have seen a lot of child abuse either emotionally or physically by parents and to force someone to have a child will only increase abuse. Both parents are at fault when they fight, bicker and blame each other in front of any child.

Those of us who are married and have kids knows it is hard enough to raise kids in today's world with two parents. I could not imagine doing it all alone. I had my share of TDY's and being a single parent really sucked! It is not something I would ever want to put my kids through on a permanent basis.

There is only one sure way of birth control and we all know that men are not going to go without sex without the benefit of marriage. We also know that when a unwanted pregnancy happens the majority of the time it is the women ends up raising the child alone. Paying a monthly allowance some men feel is adequate for being a dad. I know more single women that are sole custodial parents than I do men. (Actually I do not know of any men who have sole custodial care...most are joint and the children live with their mothers).

Most women choose abortion (and to set the record straight I have never had an abortion, nor would I if that choice was mine to make) due to circumstances beyond their control, not as a viable option for birth control. It is a hard choice and it does not make it easier when you have the conservative right trying to call you a baby killer. I have several friends who have had an abortion and I still think it should be a choice. They only have to answer to God, not to man. So you can debate the issue all you want about whether abortion is right or wrong, but it should be something to be left to an individual.

I know the flip side is putting the child up for adoption, but the US has made adoption very hard for the average parents. I have friends who have had to adopt babies in other parts of the world due to the US adoption laws. There are too many kids already in our system and not enough homes for these children, so how can making abortion illegal going to solve this problem?

There is a reason most women are pro-choice. Even if you look at the first ladies, most are pro-choice even though their husbands are not. They call it Labor for a reason. Having a baby is a lifetime commitment and not everyone one is willing to make that lifelong commitment. Not everyone wants children, not everyone deserves children, but I see it only creating more unwanted children, more child abuse and more child neglect. It may not be the right answer, but at this point in time I see no other option. We do not live in a perfect world with perfect parents or the right answers. I truly believe that if men had to be the ones to actually have the babies we would not be debating this issue.
Smile

mikest · PO2 Joined: 11 May 2004 Posts: 377

Only one quibble Theresa. Men take care of their responsibilities including being an active parent if the woman chooses to keep the baby. You are describing boys.

ASPB · Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2004 1:12 am Post subject:

mikest · PO2 Joined: 11 May 2004 Posts: 377

Class does not come into it. I know minorities on both sides of the equation and whether they are rich or poor the men take care of their responsibilities and the boys don't. This is not a party thing either. Both have men and boys.

ASPB · Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2004 1:43 am Post subject:

mikest · PO2 Joined: 11 May 2004 Posts: 377

Unfortunately there are senior citizens who are boys. Age has nothing to do with it. Being able to take responsibility for your actions is what makes you a man.

And I meant econ class as well.

ASPB · Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2004 1:59 am Post subject:

Marine4life · Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2004 5:13 am Post subject:

I am anti abortion except in extreme circumstances, rape, insest, life and death of the mother or severe abnormalties of the baby. With that said it is the responibility of both parties to use protection during permiscuious activity. An oh S**T on either part does not justify killing a baby to make it go away. I got divorced and won custody of my son, I raised him as a single parent. He is a fine Marine today. I didn't lay on my butt and whine, I did what was required to finish the job. To many women have abortions without the fathers consent, they just say they don't know who he is because they had multiple partners. That is wrong and needs to be stopped. If it is our choice it needs to be all parties choice not just the women. Yes I know that the women have to endure the pain of birth but I feel that it is selfish to think that way, don't have sex if you don't intend to take care of the possible outcome. The fact is men can't have babies so that logic holds no merrit with me. If you get pregnant and don't want the responsibility of raising the baby, give me a call. I will gladly do the job for you if it keeps you from killing an innocent kid. I have known at least three women that have had abortions and all of them are suffering from the trauma and guilt for the rest of their lives. That is a mistake that you don't get a redo on. I have six kid's, 1 step son who is visiting me know 28 yrs old, son who is a Marine 21 yrs old, three additional step kid's that I adopted last year 17, 15, 12 and a 2 1/2 yr old baby. And I am not catholic either. So I guess I profess to be some sort of expert on the subject. I also have two grandkid's. It takes a real Man to step up to the plate, it also takes a real woman. Every day I go to work and can't wait to get home and see my kid's. We need to stop the disposible society and get back to the basic America that has honor, courage and commitment. Kid's are not disposible trash that we can just throw away or kill at our whim. I am sorry if it burdens people to have a kid and the father runs out on you, but that is just an excuse in my opinion to take the easy way out. I have known a lot of mothers that ran out also. It is tough to raise a kid all by yourself, financilally and emotionally, but the rewards by far out weigh the hardships.
_________________
Helicopter Marine Attack Squadron 169 which is now HMLA-169. They added Huey's to compliment the Cobra effectiveness. When I served we just had Snakes.

Marine4life · Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2004 5:31 am Post subject:

Theresa, please don't take my post as a slam on anything that you said. I know exactly where you are coming from, there are major problem's. I agree with a lot of what you said. But I feel we need to fix the system and hold parents accountable for failure to be parents. People lose their kid's to the state for abuse etc, then are allowed to just go out and do it all over again. Adoption is difficult, I know I just did it. Those red tapes are in dire need of repair. Lets fix the problem and stop the killing. We need a license for everything but parenting. My wife and I were also foster parents for about 5 years, I know the system is broke. Semper Fi.
_________________
Helicopter Marine Attack Squadron 169 which is now HMLA-169. They added Huey's to compliment the Cobra effectiveness. When I served we just had Snakes.

MikeWinn · Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2004 5:43 am Post subject:

Theresa Alwood wrote:

ASPB · Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2004 6:35 am Post subject:

Mike,

I'm offering the following in furtherance of rational debate on the topic of abortion, especially for Catholics. Your church's dogma, like all, are the rules of man and not the rules of God IMHO. Abortion is a private matter and not for Government in any nation to either restrict or promote.

Please focus on the historic changes in Catholic dogma on the topic and note that a ban on abortion in the Catholic faith was initially mandated by one "man", St. Thomas Aquinas, not one "God" only after 1300 years of church history! If you want to understand why, google the history of abortion.

MikeWinn · Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2004 2:02 pm Post subject:

ASPB, While I know of your points of the church and their historical stands on multiple issues, I was really only trying to disarm those in today's society who used old and tired phrases to justify abortion. To me,
too many people today use abortion as a convenience. I have heard many say that they oppose abortion except in those instances of rape and incest, less that 1% of all pregnancies in America according to a study of the AMA last fall. I guess I just have a problem with the terminination of pre-born life, my catholicism aside, when I, and you too I'm sure, have seen way to much wasted and taken life as an adult. I know all of the issues brought up about adoption is too hard, why ruin a young girls' life
with a child so early in life, etc.. Now I'm really going to get the pro-choice(abortion) folks mad at me. It is my opinion that the Primary prevention of unwanted pregnancy lies with the woman. She is, afterall, the one who will live with unwanted consequences. I know that if I were a woman, prevention of unwanted pregnancy would be utmost in my mind if the desire for sex was so overwhelming that I could not wait for marriage, etc.. To me, this is a defining characteristic of conservative thought, not necessarily Republican, but conservative. If we as a people are to hold freedom and liberty as dearly as we do, ought we not extend those same freedoms and liberties to the pre-born as well? I was at perpetual adoration, a Catholic practice for you uninitiated Wink

, this morning and read a poem by Rich Christensen, called "I Too Had Love to Give". The last verse goes