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vietvet6769 Seaman Recruit
Joined: 15 Aug 2004 Posts: 2
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Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 3:44 am Post subject: Anyone else want the real truth? |
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Anyone else want the real truth? Since only one person actually served on one of Kerry's boats, let's get to the truth through him. Steve Gardner served on one of Kerry's boats . Mr. Gardners version, and the rest of the crews version, vary greatly. For a solution I propose that one person volunteer to a polygraph examination. The question that needs to be answered once and for all is for Mr. Gardner. Did you , or did you not kill a young unarmed Vietnamese boy. Since Mr. Gardner has decided to go public, his record should be available as well. It is my understanding that none of the others in this group ever actually served on Kerry's boat. I will cover the cost of a professional polygraph examiner. I really do want to find out who is telling the truth. Those of us who actually served in Vietnam know, of course, that a 12 year old Vietnamese boy looks like a skinny 8 year old here in the U.S. By PROVING his truthfullness, Mr. Gardner can lend to the credibility of others in this group. |
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baldeagl PO3
Joined: 07 Aug 2004 Posts: 260 Location: Texas
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Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 4:05 am Post subject: |
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First of all, Gardner served with Kerry on PCF-44, not PCF-94. Kerry got all his medals while on PCF-94 except one - his first Purple Heart, which he got on a skimmer, not a PCF.
I don't think there's much that Gardner could add that he hasn't already been questions about and answered on the record publicly.
However, if you do an extensive search on the web, for Kerry's crewmates, you will find that they contradict each other constantly. The story changes each time it is told with only the basic outline staying the same.
Furthermore, the argument that "they" weren't on the boat simply won't fly. They all served in the same area, lived on the same base, went out on patrol together and risked their lives together. For example, on 3/13/69, when Kerry get his last Purple Heart and his Bronze, there were four other boats with him, all within eyesight of each other.
PCF-3, which hit the mine, was on Kerry's port side, within throwing distance. You don't need lie detectors. If you do the research, you'll find that Kerry and his crewmates haven't told the truth.
Or you could just buy the book and read it. _________________ antimedia
USN OST-6 68-74
http://antimedia.blogspot.com/ |
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Navy_Navy_Navy Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004 Posts: 5777
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Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 4:22 am Post subject: |
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Polygraphs are often unreliable - still useful as a tool in gathering psychological tools, but people can convince themselves in a specific version of the truth so well that they can take a polygraph and pass.
Conversely, someone can be so burdened with the possible outcome that they fail.
JM2¢, _________________ ~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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vietvet6769 Seaman Recruit
Joined: 15 Aug 2004 Posts: 2
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Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 4:41 am Post subject: Does anyone want the Truth? |
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Some people may be confused concerning my posting. I simply said that one person can clear this up. I realize that polygraphs are not 100% reliable . However, in the hands of an expert it is VERY difficult to cheat. Why do people insist on changing the subject? Baldeagl, read the posting again - slowly.
This is not fail safe but at least we could finally feel better about who is telling the truth. Isn't that what we all want? |
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Navy_Navy_Navy Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004 Posts: 5777
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Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 4:55 am Post subject: |
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Honestly, I believe that you'll find less and less confusion surrounding any of the central issues once these quarter of a million copies of Unfit for Command are read.
And seriously, I do not trust polygraphs in even the most experienced hands. I would never recommend that someone submit to one. In a good operator's hands, they're a tool that's good for finding clues, but not proof of anything. _________________ ~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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HardCorps Ensign
Joined: 10 Aug 2004 Posts: 65 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 11:24 am Post subject: Anyone else want the real truth? |
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vietvet6769 first off I want to thank you for fighting for liberty, my old roommate D. Nguyen and his buddist family fled Vietnam after the fall and he always told me he owed his life to men like you- he is now a Paratrooper. I've met hundreds of Vietnamese, and Nung who feel the same way.
although I don't doubt that all honorable veterans want the truth and moreover why it is relevant to today, your post is in error:
Quote: | The question that needs to be answered once and for all is for Mr. Gardner. Did you, or did you not kill a young unarmed Vietnamese boy. Since Mr. Gardner has decided to go public, his record should be available as well. |
Mister Gardner has already answered your question on radio, on TV, and on page 56 of "Unfit for Command" read it:
He said YES the unarmed little boy was "unintentionally killed" as he was beneath the armed occupant on the Sampan that had surprised the entire crew who were in "ambush black-out condition" until the Sampan was right on them (think USS Cole). Given the high angle from the .50 tub what happened is not surprising at all.
Yet Lt. Kerry who was on Radar Watch specifically to prevent something like this, failed to notify his crew. (just leave the radar to the enlisted from now on sir)
But up to this point other than letting an armed Sampan sneak up, Kerry has done NOTHING wrong as an Officer. Why? because he had not yet falsified a report
(CTF 115) 29MAR69 quarterly eval report on 20JAN vic. VQ810650 - Sir, why does it say 5 VC were killed and 2 captured? Why was George Elliot kept in the dark? Because he didn't "serve" on the kerry's boat.
He didn't have to falsify it but he choose to. It is consistent with every other factual DOCUMENTED event kerry did (Cambodia, Silver Star x 3, Fleeing PCF -3 Winter Soldier...) He did not have to lie, he has one legitimate Purple Heart for his bravery and could have gotten a lifesaving medal for Rassman but CHOOSE the cheap path to Glory. There is always a little bit of truth in what Kerry says, that why so many are mesmerized. And when an Officer lies his men have no reason not to. (I've seen it)
Yet Gardner admitted something awful but tells the good and the bad at his peril- the book didn’t need his story, there are mountains of evidence and I'm going to use the 18" guns not the 5.56. The PollyGraph challenge is sophomoric as any one who has worn the uniform for long enough can see though Kerry's BS from the 500 yard line. You can see it on Hurleys face as he stumbles to compound the lie. What a suit!
Who is going to pay for the 254 other pollygraphs? How about for the 12 Kerry Crew(mates) Crew(men) Ship(mates) and Kerry who according to the media make up the entire Riverine force single handed? Are we not Warriors with a blood bond? we don't need machines. Once again Thank You.
Tell them we are coming, and we are bringing hell with us. _________________ __________________________
-USMC - Always Faithful
-Platoon Cmdr - Somalia
-ANGLICO FAC - Iraqi Freedom |
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