SwiftVets.com

[Craig]

I served 2 tours in Vietnam (unless the one on a destroyer does not count). When I came home I was once asked by a reporter “Did you ever actively participate in trying to end the Vietnam War”? I told her “Hell yes. I tried to kill as many of them as I could so they would quit. You can’t participate more actively than that can you”?

That was the end of her interview with me.

As well as being an “Active participant” I tried to educate myself on what happened there and why it was different than any other war this country ever fought.

As far “It was not unwinnable” I beg to differ with you SignalSoldier and I will tell you the most important reason why.

In order to defeat an enemy you have to do two things. You have to “Will” to wage more and you have to remove their “Capacity” to wage war.

If you do not remove the “Capacity” it is tough to remove the “Will”.

We fought in North Vietnam and the Viet Cong for a total of 14 years and never had a plan to reduce their capacity to wage war other than “Body Count”. When we bombed Germany and Japan we reduced their ability to wage war by bombing industrial targets that produced war materials. In case any of you did not know this they did not build Guns, Tanks, antiaircraft missiles or Mig fighters in North Vietnam. I have heard people say, “We should have just bombed them more”. In case you did not know this if you add up all the tonnage of bombs that were dropped in WWII by every nation involved and multiply that by 4, that’s what we dropped on Vietnam, most of it on rice paddies. Their weapons were being shipped to them by rail or ship from the Soviet Union and China. Of course the Russian and Chinese ships were “Off Limits” to U.S. bombers. Great “Plan for Victory”, huh. That knowledge helped me some years later when I was attacked by a pit bull. I went for his head, not his tail. I won.

Had we bombed the cities of North Vietnam or the Russian or Chinese ships, or invaded North Vietnam we would have been at war with China and Russia also. Do you really think there would have been any winner there?

There were several more factors that made the Vietnam War different.

The average age of a soldier in WWII was 26. In Korea it was 24. In Vietnam it was 18. Eighteen was not the “Youngest age”, it was the “Average age”. You could not be drafted until 18 but with the permission of your parents you could join at 16. In case you are not aware, there are some 16-year-old boys that have their name etched on a Black Granite Wall in Washington.

In WWII Japan attacked us, and Hitler declared war on us. A little footnote you may not know is that American troops and Ho Chi Mihn’s troops fought side by side to defeat the Japanese army in WWII. Ho Chi Mihn wrote 7 letters to Franklin Roosevelt asking for a free and independent country when the war was over. Roosevelt promised him he would have it. Unfortunately Roosevelt was dead when the war ended Aug 6, 1945. Seven days later we gave the Japanese soldiers their weapons back to fight Ho Chi Mihn. This was due to the fact that France still wanted Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos to remain “French Indo China”.

France then went to war with Vietnam from 1946-1954. America never sent troops then but we did pay for 80% of it.

On August 2, 1964, North Vietnamese torpedo boats attacked the USS Maddox in the Ton kin Gulf. On Aug 4, 1969 they supposedly attacked the USS Maddox and the USS turner Joy. I say supposedly because the USS Ticonderoga sent F8 Crusader jets out to sink the torpedo boats and a funny thing happened. They couldn’t find any. Captain John Herrick of the Maddox asked for in inquiry. Before he got his reply Lyndon Johnson was already asking for war.

A direct quote from Lyndon Johnson was “Those dumb stupid sailors were just shooting at flying fish”. Johnson however failed to mention that to the public. Instead he asked congress to pass “The Tonkin Gulf Resolution”. It passed in the senate 98 to 2. It not only gave Johnson a blank check to wage war on Vietnam but Laos and Cambodia as well. Senator Wayne Morris and Senator Ernest Gruening voted against it. A reporter asked Senator Morris why he voted against it. His answer was “History will prove me right”. In 1971 the Senate overturned The Tonkin Gulf Resolution.

Johnson also failed to mention that for 2 years prior to August 2nd the CIA had been sending Norwegian Class “Nasty Boats” crewed with mercenaries into North Vietnamese waters indiscriminately raking the coast with machine gun fire. Coincidently the Nasty boats made a raid on August 1, 1964. I watched them as they continued to head north when I was patrolling the waters of the DMZ in 1967 and 1968.

Some 30 years after Vietnam Robert McNamara wrote a book saying the Vietnam War was wrong. I guess Senator Kerry was just a little ahead of his time. Clark Clifford replaced McNamara as Secretary of defense. After some time at that post he assembled the Joint Chief’s of staff. He only asked them one question, “What is your plan to win this war”. Not one of them had an answer for him. After he left office, Clifford, in the July 1969 issue of Foreign Affairs, made his views crystal clear: "Nothing we might do could be so beneficial . . . as to begin to withdraw our combat troops. Moreover . . . we cannot realistically expect to achieve anything more through our military force, and the time has come to begin to disengage. That was my final conclusion as I left the Pentagon on January 20, 1969."

Do you know how many Americans died from the time Clark Clifford left office until the wars end? I do

Here are some more reasons why I feel was Vietnam different than any other war this country has ever fought.

#1. As mentioned earlier, the average age of a soldier was 18.

#2.In WWI, WWII and Korea the soldiers trained as a unit, were deployed as a unit and came home as a unit. In Vietnam the soldiers were drafted, enlisted, (or enlisted to avoid the draft to try to secure a better job) trained as individuals, were deployed as individuals and came home alone. They were dropped off on their doorstep after a 12-month tour (if they survived unscathed) and in many cases the only skill they had at 19 years old was to kill human beings. They were then told to “Act Normal”. I wondered myself when I heard that from my friends and family if they had any idea of what “Normal” was. Of course if the veterans were feeling abnormal they could always check into a VA hospital, be counseled by a 25 year old grad student who just got his or her degree, be chained to a bed and shot up with enough thorazine to knock down a cow. That was standard treatment in 1969. I decided to skip that one, Thank you.

#3. We had no plan to win. In any other war this country fought the soldiers captured territory, held it and pacified the people. The powers that be in our government tried a new strategy in Vietnam. It was called “Body Count”. President Johnson and President Nixon decided that was a good course of action. When the grunts (Infantry) went into the field they would have to take a hill, lose many men, give it up and then take it again the next week. Great moral booster don’t ya think?

#4. 10% of the deaths and 15% of the casualties were from “Booby Traps”. The Vietcong used our love for our brothers as a weapon against us. If they killed a GI there was nothing we could do for him. Most of their booby traps were designed to maim. If they maimed one of us they knew it took at least one GI and usually more to take care of him. That meant less firepower to bear on them. The media never told you “The Whole Story” about the massacre at Mai Lai. They never told you what happened to Lt. Cally’s platoon and one of his sergeants the night before Mia Lai. I wont tell you here either. Look it up. It aint pretty

#5. When WWII vets came home they came home to shouting crowds and waving flags. There were shouting crowds waving flags when we came home also. They were Vietcong flags.

I am sorry if I am rambling. I must have been one of those B40 rockets that went off in close proximity to my temporal lobe.

I could go on until I crash my hard drive but alas, I grow weary. I will try to refrain now from giving you any more reasons why I feel Vietnam was “Different”.

Please forgive me for being vain but I feel I have a tad more insight into Senator Kerry’s service and his actions than you do. I wrote an earlier post titled “To Hell And Back”. I feel it is worth repeating. There is that old saying, “I would go to hell and back with that man”. I can honestly tell you that I would go “To Hell And Back” with Senator Kerry because I already have.

When I came home from my second tour in Vietnam it was not exactly how my family or me had planed it. I came back from a combat patrol and I was handed a note by my boat officer. He said, "Here ski, this is for you". He handed me a small piece of paper and walked away. It didn't say much on it but what it said dropped me to my knees. I remember it verbatim. "TO: RD2 (Xinloi). FROM: The American Red Cross. "Your father has had a cerebral hemorrhage, could expire any moment. Your presence is requested at home. Make arrangements for emergency leave ASAP." I was stunned. My dad was only 48 years old.

I was back in the states in 16 hours. I thought I was on another planet. I had $2000 (a lot of money in 1969) in my pocket that I had earned killing people. There was nowhere to spend it where Senator Kerry and I operated. I gave it to my mom and said “Here mom, pay the bills. My father survived and I was discharged to take over the family business. I worked from 8 until 5 every day, went to bed at six, woke up and went to the bar until 2 in the morning. I even left the gal I was engaged to when I enlisted in the Navy in 1966. This continued for some time and I even watched Senator Kerry on television testifying before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. That woke me up and I decided to educate myself on what happened to me because I sure as hell did not know when I came home. I was 21.

The information I posted above you can find in “Stanley Karnow’s illustrated history of Vietnam”, Neil Sheehan’s, “A Bright Shining Lie”, The “Long Grey Line” by Rick Atkinson, just to name a few.

I got my life back together but I had to wait a while for the woman I loved. I left her in 1969 but married her in 1995.I hope when the campaign comes to Ohio to be standing with Senator Kerry once more.

Together we are now both serving our country today.
I am a Coxswain and my wife is a qualified crewmember in the United States Coast Guard Auxiliary. We volunteer hundreds of hours a year doing Search and rescue missions. Security patrols, Safety patrols, and training and we will continue to do so no matter who is the president next year.

This picture was taken Tuesday May 11, 2004 on board my boat which is a U.S. Coast Guard auxillary vessel. We were training the regular Coast Guard. Coast Guard Training


Xinloi
Petty Officer Second Class, United States Navy Black Berets
Vietnam

Operational Specialist, U.S.S. Brister (Destroyer Escort # 327) Operation Market Time, 1967
Forward machine gunner (PCF 7 Swift Boat, Dannang 1968
Forward machine gunner (PCF 94) Swift Boat, Anthoi, 1969
Task Force 115, Operation Market Time, Operation Sealords, Operation Phoenix.
Coxswain United States Coast Guard Auxillary, 2001-


P.S. Nixon said we were never in Cambodia.

[carpro]

Where'd you get this ,Craig? Some of his facts are so out of whack, it kinda makes one question the validity of the whole thing. Of course, everything but the facts might be dead level straight. Kinda makes me wonder, though.
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"If he believes his 1971 indictment of his country and his fellow veterans was true, then he couldn't possibly be proud of his Vietnam service."

[Big Kahuna]

I question the average age being 18. It was young -- but not 18.

I went in 4 days after turning 17. I took the Armed Forces Battery and the physical at 16 -- but was not allowed to go to basic until I was 17 (with my parents permission and the Judge's suggestion )

I would estimate the average age close to 20 in the late 60s and early 70s. You were drafted at 19 -- and the majority of grunts were the 2-year draftees.

I could be wrong on this -- but I don't think so.
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Top 10 Weasels.com is where Kerry is Weasel #1

[Greenhat]

http://www.vietnam-war.info/myths/

[Big Kahuna]

Well I was right on the average age older than 18 and may be wrong on the "majority of the grunts" being drafted.

However, I think when you pull out Navy, Air Force and the non-infintry Army and Marines (leaving the Grunts) -- you will change that ratio to more drafted than volunteered. The 2/3 Volunteered stat is for all personnel station in Viet Nam and not just Grunts.
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Top 10 Weasels.com is where Kerry is Weasel #1

[colmurph]

The "Average Age" of men involved in combat in Vietnam was 22.

That is from DOD. That's a far cry from 18. At age 26 I was literally the "Old Man" when I was a Rifle Company Commander.

[LewWaters]

Best I remember, no one under the age of 18 could be in Vietnam back then. I enlisted at age 20 myself and seems that I was far from the youngest.

A lot of "facts" surrounding Vietnam seem to keep resurfacing, from time to time. Too bad they aren't truthful, but are still stated as facts by some.

[Craig]

[DougReese]

[sparky]

If http://www.vietnam-war.info says its true, it must be. You can't just register an URL like that just because you were the first to sign up for it.

[Craig]

[quote="DougReese"][quote="Craig"]