View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
EODARMY Seaman
Joined: 22 Aug 2004 Posts: 168
|
Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 9:57 pm Post subject: Any Crew on PCF 43 Boat (Droz) Support Kerry's story? |
|
|
Any Crew on PCF 43 Boat (Droz) Support Kerry's 13 March story as PCF 43 was immediately behind Kerry's PCF 94 boat when it was supposedly struck by the 2nd mine?
Another item strikes me as odd is Kerry's buttocks wound he claims from a mine detonation close to his boat PCF 94, thus ejecting Rassman. Naval mines are not designed to produce fragmentation, rather to break the back of a vessel. Thus you hear the story of the PCF 3 boat being lifted out of the water by 2-6 ft. As an old Explosive Ordnance Disposal guy it strikes me as odd that he would get fragged by an underwater mine! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
baldeagl PO3
Joined: 07 Aug 2004 Posts: 260 Location: Texas
|
Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Kerry wasn't fragged by the mine. He got the shrapnel in his butt earlier in the day when he threw a grenade into a pile of rice and didn't get away fast enough. He admits that in his book, Tour of Duty. _________________ antimedia
USN OST-6 68-74
http://antimedia.blogspot.com/ |
|
Back to top |
|
|
EODARMY Seaman
Joined: 22 Aug 2004 Posts: 168
|
Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:41 pm Post subject: Kerry Fragging |
|
|
I know he fragged himself, but I was just showing that even his stroy about a 2nd mine is illogical as water mines do not generate fragmentation. Anyone have any info on the crew members on the Droz boat PCF-43 as it was immediately behind Kerry's on the incident on the 13th. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ETEE Ensign
Joined: 10 Aug 2004 Posts: 64 Location: New Iberia,La
|
Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:58 pm Post subject: Re: Kerry Fragging |
|
|
EODARMY wrote: | Anyone have any info on the crew members on the Droz boat PCF-43 as it was immediately behind Kerry's on the incident on the 13th. |
Supposedly, Wayne Langhofer, BM2, PCF43, 2/69-4/12/69 has come out for Kerry.
I don't know about the rest of the crew of PCF 43. They are as follows:
Robert Hornberger,GMG2,12/68-4/12/69
Lloyd Jones,EN2,2/69-4/12/69
Steven Miller,RD2,2/69-4/12/69
Michael Modansky,RD3,2/69-4/12/69
Lt.jg.Donald Droz was KIA,4/12/69 when PCF43 was totally destroyed in an ambush. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
EODARMY Seaman
Joined: 22 Aug 2004 Posts: 168
|
Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:04 am Post subject: Droz boat PCF-43 |
|
|
It would be very interesting to hear these guys as they were immediately behind Kerry on the 13th. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Concerned Seaman Recruit
Joined: 24 Aug 2004 Posts: 9 Location: Long Island, NY
|
Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
baldeagl wrote: | Kerry wasn't fragged by the mine. He got the shrapnel in his butt earlier in the day when he threw a grenade into a pile of rice and didn't get away fast enough. He admits that in his book, Tour of Duty. |
Rassmann also got a PH on March 13th. Did he get his PH in the pile of rice stage of action or later during the mine incident? Anyone see any reference to when and how Rassmann was injured. How badly he was hurt might have some influence with how he acted and what he remembered during the mine incident. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ASPB Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004 Posts: 1680
|
Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
There has been nothing in the available data to determine how or when Rassman received a PH. None of the books on the matter. None of the Naval records released by the Kerry Campaign. None of the Navy records that have been privately researched and released to the Internet.
Nada! _________________ On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
|
Back to top |
|
|
zinfella Rear Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2004 Posts: 708 Location: Mesa, Az
|
Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
How did Rassman get a PH from that day since he didn't get any medical treatment? _________________ No whiners! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
EODARMY Seaman
Joined: 22 Aug 2004 Posts: 168
|
Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:46 am Post subject: Fragging |
|
|
I know he wasn't fragged by the mine. But he claims he was. What evidence does anyone have that he fragged himself on the rice???????/ None that I've heard other than he said--vs. he said. If these guys used frag grenades earlier in the day, the medical reports may well show medal consistent with a frag grenade. If they used an offensive blast grenade they would have rocks and rice in their backsides.
I raise the mine issue (kerry's allegation) because an under water mine does not generate frag. I have also read that a rocket was the source of the frag. The guys in the 43 boat which was immediately behind Kerry's would have an excellent vantage point of the incident.
I KNOW THAT KERRY ACTUALLY FRAGGED HIMSELF EARLIER THAT MORNING WITH THE RICE PILE INCIDENT! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ASPB Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004 Posts: 1680
|
Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
That's the point.
We don't have data other that a list of army PH's awarded during the period. No CAAR, no medical records, no Nada! Try to get the Special Forces guys who first posted this issue here to run it down.
They're as motivated as we are but they have contacts we don't .
And EOD, you're 100% right. There is no frag from a underwater Czech or Chinese C-4 improvised explosive device and that's exactly what almost all water mines in Nam were.
Tom _________________ On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
|
Back to top |
|
|
EODARMY Seaman
Joined: 22 Aug 2004 Posts: 168
|
Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:58 am Post subject: FRAGGING |
|
|
IF KERRY FRAGGED HIMSELF THAT MORNING, ITS A POSSIOBILITY RASSMAN GOT FRAGGED WITH THE SAME INCIDENT. WE WILL NEVER KNOW UNLESS THE MED REPORT SHEDS SOME LIGHT. AND WE WILL NEVER KNOW THAT AS NEITHER WILL RELEASE THE MED RECORDS. KERRY'S ALLEGATION THAT AN UNDERWATER MINE GENERATED HIGH VELOCITY FRAG WITH ENOUGH ENERGY TO PENETRATE THE WATER AND HIS PILOTHOUSE IS UNLIKELY. IF WISH WE HAD THE PCF-43 VETS ON BOARD ON THIS ISSUE! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ASPB Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004 Posts: 1680
|
Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
You're right again. The circumstantial evidence supports our position.
How about demanding a SF-180 signature for Rassman as well as Kerry? GMG2 (E-5) David Alston as well! _________________ On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
|
Back to top |
|
|
EODARMY Seaman
Joined: 22 Aug 2004 Posts: 168
|
Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:04 am Post subject: FRAGGING |
|
|
ANOTHER THING ABOUT THIS FRAG HE CLAIMS CAME FROM AN UNDERWATER MINE IS THAT THESE THINGS ARE NOT DESIGNED TO COME APART LIKE A FRAG HAND GRENADE. iF A CHUNK OF THIS MINE CASING BROKE ABOVE THE WATER IT IS MORE LIKELY IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A RAGGED CHUNK MAYBE THE SIZE OF YOUR FIRST. iF THAT HAD ENOUGH VELOCITY TO PENETRATE THE WATER AND THE PILOT HOUSE, KERRY WOULD HAVE COME HOME AT BEST MISSING ALOT OF STUFF!!!!!!!!!!!!! nOT A BAND-AID ON HIS ASS!!!!!!1 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ASPB Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004 Posts: 1680
|
Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
EOD,
Respectfully, people won't read you if you're typing all upper case or capital letters. It's considered rude or uninformed on the net. Not a complaint just a suggestion.
To your question. The improvised explosive devices used as mines on the songs and dongs of Vietnam didn't normally even have metal in them. They were C-4 wrapped in plastic and sealed with wax to waterproof them.
Explosive force yes; shrapnel no! Just a fact! _________________ On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
|
Back to top |
|
|
EODARMY Seaman
Joined: 22 Aug 2004 Posts: 168
|
Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:24 am Post subject: Fragging |
|
|
Well that's what I was thinking but then I'm not a Navy EOD type. I've also seen somewhere the story of Kerry being struck by a rocket, but the damage report he wrote on his boat doesn't seem to support this does it? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|